Understanding the Crin Alliance

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Understanding the Crin Alliance

Post by MagikSage » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:05 am

The page "Bonus Page: The Great Experiment" started raising some questions about how a nation like the Crin Alliance could be stable.

My first question is where does to government get the money to fund everything? Crinn cannot get the money from taxation, even if they took 100% of people's incomes the government couldn't get close to breaking even. There is still the cost of war and public maintenance. Anyways, the idea of taxing people you paid is a little odd in of itself. There just isn't any point in collecting taxes from people you paid in the first place,except to make your citizens feel like they are earning more.

So my question again, where does Crinn get the money to fund everything? (Taxation isn't a valid method.)

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Re: Understanding the Crin Alliance

Post by Vile » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:34 pm

I think you need to re-read that page more closely, MagikSage. It doesn't say anything about the Cirin government paying everyone's wages - they merely set limits for them. Private enterprise still operates, albeit with more restrictions than the usual "free" market system. It is entirely appropriate (and, in my opinion, likely) that there will be taxes, quite high ones at that given the need to pay for the war and a large civil service. On the other hand, the higher wages for common people should reduce the need for handouts and subsidised social services. The underlying purpose of the Cirin model is to restrict the flow of the society's money to the top of the economic pyramid the way it would in an unrestricted free market.

I don't want to drag RW politics into this, but a couple of examples might be helpful.

One, it is normal for social welfare states to pay people and then tax them on those payments - e.g. pensions and unemployment benefit in the UK. Remember, when you cut to the bottom line there are only two reasons for the existence of government - to increase its size and to increase its budget.

Two, and this is admittedly only peripherally useful, China now operates on a system of totalitarian government combined with capitalism - although the majority of the big corporate players are party-owned, they still operate in a fashion similar to "normal" companies in that they employ workers, the make money, and they pay taxes. So you shouldn't assume that a "socialist state" necessarily controls all the finances.

Finally, if you did have a system where the government owned everything and paid everyone's wages, you would have plenty of money available for running a war - because there would be no "wastage" in the form of middle men or tax collectors. The government would keep all profits from their businesses and spend them as they saw fit.

I hope this interpretation is helpful - and I hope this is what David had in mind when he wrote the Cirin political model!

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Re: Understanding the Crin Alliance

Post by skythorn » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:05 pm

This model very much reminds me of a legend (*) about how Japanese company directors are unable to earn more than 10x the poorest employee - thus if the directors want a raise, they have to make sure that everyone gets a raise ...


(*) = could not be bothered googling and relied on my basic brain recall powers ...

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