Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

All discussion related to the Crimson Dark webcomic (at crimsondark.com)
LeonT
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by LeonT » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:03 am

midwestmutt wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:16 am
I'm guessing they will find an injured survivor to Stockholm with to provide perspective from the other side.
Given the chapter title (broken things), that is not unlikely

CorvusCorax
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by CorvusCorax » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:52 pm

I really like the description underneath the latest page.

Although the term "list" is technically a bit questionable, its fitting enough that assuming a far future society adapted it to space-faring vessels isn't that far-fetched.

List in traditional sea-faring vessels means the vessel is not sitting upright in the water but is "listing" to one side. That means all decks are tilted to that side by the list angle, and if the list is severe enough, you can have significant difficulties walking. Also cargo and other objects will tumble to that side (and by such make that side heavier, thus increasing the list)

A spacecraft technically cannot list in orbit, as there is no stationary gravity and - in the absence of thrust or artificial gravity, as would be the case in a disabled craft - everything on board is experiencing weightlessness.

As mentioned in the description, any rotational moment imparted to the vessel before it was disabled - either by deliberate maneuver or by impact - is kept theoretically forever, since there's no forces acting to counter it. Or in lay-mans terms. Objects that are spinning remain spinning. (Newtons laws of mechanics, conservation of momentum and energy)

(in practice, in orbit around a planet, small tidal forces from the planet will slowly slow the craft down until it is tidally locked with the planet, but that takes months if not years to happen, especially with large ships)

A rotating ship of course means there is an apparent centrifugal force acting on anything inside it. In fact this is the simplest form of artificial gravity. The downside is. It"s not pointing downwards to the deck, but always outwards, away from the axis of rotation and towards the outer hull plating, which is now "the floor"

so very much like a listing ship, everyone and everything inside is pulled to one side - the outside. How much so depends on how fast the ship is rotating. After a collision, these forces could even be greater than 1g and make movement near the outer hull near impossible, up to being so strong they rip the ship apart (one reason why capital ships - possibly hundreds of meters long - cannot turn on the spot too fast. The forces become too great for hull, passengers or inertial dampeners to handle)

As such, applying the term "list" to a ship that is rotating and lost inertial compensation - although not physically accurate - is IMHO quite a good choice of term. I like that a lot.

An important difference though. Unlike a seafaring vessel where all the crap that tumbles to the listing side will make the list worse, in a rotating space ship any mass accumulating further outside due to centrifugal forces will actually slow the rotation down a bit. (Since the moment of rotation remains constant, if the mass is further out, the speed must go down. This can be seen really nice in the video of the Space rocket booster tumbling towards the water, and slowing down its spin just before water impact as it "throws" the legs out - much like a ballerina doing a pirouette and then extending her arms)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf0cqROzuPI

By the way, stopping the rotation is currently one of the major challenges in robotic "space debris removal missions" as planned by NASA and ESA. You cannot efficiently dock or link up with a craft unless you either stop its rotation, or you approach it directly in the axis of rotation. As such derelict satellites that might be tumbling are very tricky and even dangerous to approach.

Docking with a derelict craft, as our heroes just have done is not a trivial process, although one would assume that a spacefaring society as advanced as this has mastered this process long ago and would have routines for it in any ships nav/guidance computer

CygnusX1
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by CygnusX1 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:18 am

Speaking of docking to a derelict, spinning ship, Interstellar comes to mind...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3lcGnMhvsA

they were approaching from the axis of the rotation, yet it still wasn't easy. With the ship rotating that fast, the crew that was sitting few meters away from the axis, was already exposed to pretty high forces. And given the explosion earlier, the rotation axis was not perfectly aligned either.

CorvusCorax
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Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:37 pm

Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by CorvusCorax » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:23 am

that is impressive. Luckily the ship in the comic was apparently rotating a lot less. How come that station/larger ship in interstellar wasn't ripped apart is probably only explained by "it wasn't in the script" but it demonstrates the difficulty very very well :-)

I need to watch the interstellar movie at some point :)

Aegis J Hyena
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:57 am

Calling it now, if I didn't already. They find Veygyr, working the Souri side of things. It just reeks of that kind of reveal.

CygnusX1
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by CygnusX1 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:25 am

CorvusCorax wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:23 am
that is impressive. Luckily the ship in the comic was apparently rotating a lot less. How come that station/larger ship in interstellar wasn't ripped apart is probably only explained by "it wasn't in the script" but it demonstrates the difficulty very very well :-)
I think the station was made of a strong but light material (Carbon nanotubes?). That could explain why it got so much spin initially, and why it was relatively easy to stop the spin after the docking was complete.
CorvusCorax wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:23 am
I need to watch the interstellar movie at some point :)
I really liked it; well, maybe except the final act before the epilogue, but I let them slide (I'll skip the details not to spoil anything).
However, this film has this unique surreal touch throughout the movie that I can't describe and that I didn't feel in any other space movie. This sense of finality, loneliness...

CorvusCorax
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by CorvusCorax » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:08 pm

What I don't get is...
In the previous frames we saw the exterior of that ship. It has like gaping holes in various sections.

And the breaching lances are just cutting yet another one.

Shouldn't these two lovebirds be wearing pressure suits by now? How would they know that the section beyond the airlock has atmosphere? Or the section inside the enemy ship where that superconducting coil can be found? Or the path there?

I know in the scifi game FTL - if you ever get boarded, the first thing you do is, you retreat your crew into an easy to defend central section of your ship, close the bulkheads and vent the atmosphere in the part of the ship that is currently being invaded.

Which is easier if the boarding happens at the end of a battle, since your ship is often so badly shot up, large parts are exposed to vacuum anyway.

Just the situation we have here now.

CygnusX1
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by CygnusX1 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:24 am

I think you are absolutely right.
In author's defense or a suspension of disbelief, one could argue that they know that there is an atmosphere in that particular section that they are cutting in (and they reason why they don't just use hundreds of other holes already available). But... they said at 22.9 that they scanners cannot penetrate the armour. That makes that defense that much harder :(

CorvusCorax
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Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:37 pm

Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by CorvusCorax » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:32 pm

Also one thing I forgot is, the vessel is dead in space. No power, that also means no life support, no pressurization system and no electric bulkheads.

Bulkheads probanly have some emergency backup hardwired that closes them once if the power fails and then its gonna be hard to reopen, but the pressure will still slowly drop. No ship is 100% airtight especially not after being rocked by explosions.

Chances are, there is vacuum on the other side. Not a hard vacuum, more like something their own ship can replenish, but at least initially no breathable air.

And floating bodies that spent the last 10minutes slowly suffoxating, with all the nice visuals, some huggibg each other, some clawing their own necks as they cant breathe...

Some still warm, hasn't been that long. Some maybe still with a chance of recovery.

Some images that might even haunt whisper.

Calling it ;)

The Colonel
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by The Colonel » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:37 am

Alternatively, the air is stale because there's no-one aboard - I'm still pushing the idea that the Souri collective has been hijacked by The Mazikeen and that the gunboats - and, who knows, maybe the behemoths as well - are mostly or completely operated by AI and perhaps a few Jaks... Daniel and Whisper are going aboard a ghost ship.

Still, boarding a ship with multiple hull breaches without an EVA suit does seem unwise...

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