Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

All discussion related to the Crimson Dark webcomic (at crimsondark.com)
GreyFleece
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by GreyFleece » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:18 am

Interesting damage - the bits haven't moved very far, even vaporisation cuts would have produced some outward pressure. Perhaps it is designed to come apart?

CorvusCorax
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by CorvusCorax » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:14 am

GreyFleece wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:18 am
Interesting damage - the bits haven't moved very far, even vaporisation cuts would have produced some outward pressure. Perhaps it is designed to come apart?
It's hard to get a good sense for scale and mass of this thing. But I'd assume its diameter is around 1 to 3 clicks (km)
Let's assume a high density of 5g/cm³ (M class asteroid, since anything weaker would neither be worth mining nor make a good place for an outpost) then a comparably sized cube of 1km³ would weigh 5.0 × 10^12 kg -- quite a sizeable mass. Enough mass to pull itself together by gravity:

Gravity at the surface of that object would be (G*M)/r² where G is the gravitational constant of 6.6742×10^−11 m³/(kg*s²) M is 5.0 × 10^12 kg and r²=(500m)²=2.5×10^5m²

so (G*M)/r² =~ 0.0013 m/s² - or 8 mm/s per minute, or 4.8 m/s in an hour.

The orbital speed is sqrt(G*M/r) = 0.81 m/s or around 3 km/h

That's walking speed, so if you walk slowly, you can walk on the surface, but if you start running, you are going to orbit and float once around the rock. That's quite convenient for EVAs.

Escape velocity would be 1.15m/s or 4.1 km/h - So don't run too fast, or you'll drift away into space.

The majority of small rocks and debris in the vicinity of the broken station are probably locked into an orbit, slowly floating around it at a leasurely 3km/h

The big pieces stick together because gravity pulls them towards each other.

Both size and density are very rough estimates, but from a physics point of view, this scene looks quite plausible.

CorvusCorax
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by CorvusCorax » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:41 am

While we are at it, assume someone wanted to blow the rock *completely apart*.
(And by completely apart I mean, an ever expanding debris cloud that will not clump back together - ever)

as a rough aproximation - thats the energy needed to accelerate all the mass of the object to its escape velocity - outwards.

mass we determined as 5.0 × 10^12 kg - escape velocity is 1.15m/s and kinetic energy is 1/2 mv² which is 6.6×10^12 Joule.

Coincidentally, a Kiloton of TNT is 4.184×10^12 Joule

So to disperse the mass of the asteroid, you'd have needed 1.5 Kilotons of TNT Equivalent,a tactical Nuke, although not counting the energy needed to shatter the rock material itself, which is probably significant.

The asteroid has been shattered however, and large pieces are at least orbiting (not in contact) so I'd say we are dealing with an explosion somewhere between 0.1 and 0.5 Kilotons TNT equivalent. That's still small tactical nuke ballpark range.

CorvusCorax
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by CorvusCorax » Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:42 am

Heh, there seems to be an online calculator for everything, just found this:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Resources/ ... ction.html

The fragmentation energy calculated by that is significantly higher, but they had the requirement of leaving no fragments greater 10m
(which becomes important when trying to minimize effects of planetary impact as smaller fragments usually don't survive reentry)

It's of limited use to model Golgatha, since it's mass is in comparably few, large fragments (100m+)

But its still kinda relevant and interesting. Now at least we know that in order to Vaporize Golgatha, they'd have needed a yield in the Gigaton range.

In space, the easiest way to get to those energy levels is putting a similarly sized asteroid on a collision course and just let it get fast enough (Don't you love retrograde orbits?). You can use orbital mechanics to work in your favor if you have a few years time to spare so you can line up your target run over a few AU. It won't be quick, but it will be thorough.

CygnusX1
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by CygnusX1 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:50 am

Actually, I think it may be not that hard to shatter Golgotha if you put the nuke at its center, not at the surface. Then 100% of its energy is used to destroy it.
However, if you hit the surface with the nuke - you need much more energy, as most of it will just bounce off into space...

With the inner explosion however, as soon as the rocks are shattered and some gaps are present, all the remaining energy will "evaporate" through the cracks. Small debris will be thrown in space, but big pieces of rock may not gain that much speed - they are quite heavy after all.

Now, based on the position of the pieces, a clever computer should be able to simulate and tell us how long ago the explosion happened. Ren, I guess it is your job, as you are probably the most phsycis-savvy of the bunch...

Aegeus
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by Aegeus » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:50 am

Kari's been through this before.
Kari has been through a lot of ambushes, now that I think about it. Somewhere between three and six, depending on how you count. At this point I'd just start calculating emergency jumps any time I'm in the same system as a derelict ship.

CygnusX1
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by CygnusX1 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:38 am

Aegeus wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:50 am
Kari's been through this before.
Kari has been through a lot of ambushes, now that I think about it. Somewhere between three and six, depending on how you count. At this point I'd just start calculating emergency jumps any time I'm in the same system as a derelict ship.
I would add calculating emergency jump as a standard procedure for every jump :)

Aegis J Hyena
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:57 am

Did this attack come from within, or without? I got the sense Golgotha was one single piece, not a bunch of "plates" of rock that were held together and have now flown apart at the seams.

This has GOT to be an ambush. Knowing V, he'll want to go in anyway and look for survivors. He's going to get what's coming to him...

CorvusCorax
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by CorvusCorax » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:13 pm

Aegis J Hyena wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:57 am
Did this attack come from within, or without? I got the sense Golgotha was one single piece, not a bunch of "plates" of rock that were held together and have now flown apart at the seams.

This has GOT to be an ambush. Knowing V, he'll want to go in anyway and look for survivors. He's going to get what's coming to him...
The damage definitely says this thing was blown up from the inside.

Either
* Someone smuggled a nuke in
* Someone hit it with a missile that brought a warhead very far in (that central shaft for docking goes pretty deep)
* Someone infiltrated the stations computer system with a ghost and blew its reactor up which was conveniently at the center.

Which reminds me, what blew Scar up?

Considering we are talking about the Collective, I think there's a pattern here, I think we can kinda guess what happened, but lets be open for surprises :)

Aegeus
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by Aegeus » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:08 am

Which reminds me, what blew Scar up?
A Gerushda-class destroyer, probably. It's not explicitly confirmed - Whisper just says they were hit without warning - but it shows up to attack Kari and co when they're looking for survivors, so the most likely explanation is that it killed the Scar and then hung around to see who else would show up.

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