Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

All discussion related to the Crimson Dark webcomic (at crimsondark.com)
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Mercy Machine
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by Mercy Machine » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:22 pm

As I sort of predicted, Mensk's personnel-management style proves unwise. Interesting that Saphira seems to have tipped Shade off. I wonder if she (and possibly Marcus too) were plants in the first place?
cbhacking wrote:I'm amused by the way Mensk keeps referring to them "murdering" his relatives... immunity to logic, or just a serious superiority complex?
Mensk's thinking is perfectly normal. People, and nations too, usually apply a double standard of this kind. They kill our civilians? Murder. We kill their civilians? Collateral damage. They torture. We employ "enhanced interrogation". They rape civilians? War crime. We incinerate a city full of civilians with a nuclear weapon? Medals and commendations all round.

Still, pretty unwise mouthing off like that. Mensk is a slow learner.

Vile
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by Vile » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:52 pm

Mercy Machine wrote:Still, pretty unwise mouthing off like that. Mensk is a slow learner.
Must run in the family! :lol:

Personally, I wouldn't be too keen to hire Mensk's people. They are working for an unscrupulous pirate, they don't seem to be too on-the-ball, and they turn on their employer at the drop of a hat.

A bit like a man called Jayne, really.

JoelG
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by JoelG » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:57 pm

Yup, loyalty has to go down the chain of command, not just up.

I only noticed this because I was just commenting on how long Marcus' weapon was, but it appears to have shrunk to carbine size. I suppose the difference could be the change in perspective, but it really looks like a foot has been chopped off its length.

Now that I think on it, considering how David creates this comic (posing 3D electronic characters), it probably IS the change in perspective.

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David
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by David » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:11 pm

The length has not changed. It is, as you rightly suspected, a matter of perspective.

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Lokekar Kra
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by Lokekar Kra » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:06 am

*sniffle* And here I was thinking we might get some more shots fired this chapter... I thought this was a possibility once Mensk made us aware that they are hired guns, but mercs always operate by their own standards...
"He walks amongst us, but he is not one of us"
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algesan
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by algesan » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:49 am

Mercy Machine wrote:As I sort of predicted, Mensk's personnel-management style proves unwise. Interesting that Saphira seems to have tipped Shade off. I wonder if she (and possibly Marcus too) were plants in the first place?
Remember the Mensk=Hal comparison by Sapphira, although Sapphira appears to consider the entire Mensk clan as about the same.

One question, how long has it been since the death mark was put on them? It was only two weeks when they discovered the warp gate.
cbhacking wrote:I'm amused by the way Mensk keeps referring to them "murdering" his relatives... immunity to logic, or just a serious superiority complex?
Mensk's thinking is perfectly normal. People, and nations too, usually apply a double standard of this kind. They kill our civilians? Murder. We kill their civilians? Collateral damage. They torture. We employ "enhanced interrogation". They rape civilians? War crime. We incinerate a city full of civilians with a nuclear weapon? Medals and commendations all round.

Still, pretty unwise mouthing off like that. Mensk is a slow learner.
Double logic also applies when you consider that Sapphira's minion killed another one of the Mensk clan, but that is forgotten or simply too dangerous to even mention, as might be shown by the comment by Shade. Shade (and maybe Marcus) might be getting a bit extra for reporting any such commentary about Sapphira to Sapphira.

As for the rest: Civilians are killed in an attack against civilians: Murder. Kill "their" civilians in an attack against their armed forces hiding among "their" civilians: Collateral damage. Do crippling, disfiguring and potentially fatal physical damage while questioning: Torture. Apply psychological stress in various forms without permanent harm: Enhanced interrogation. (FYI, don't bother trying to tell me about "permanent psychological damage", I know about it. Personally.)
They rape civilians: War crime. We incinerate a city full of civilians saving over one million casualties of our troops as well as untold millions of their other civilians because the government is full of whack jobs ready to go down in a welter of blood before admitting being wrong: Medals and commendations all around works out real well, for the lives saved at least.

You do realize that no law of warfare requires any army to clear a village house by house to make sure the civilians are spared? If armed men hide among civilians in a village and use them for cover while they try an ambush, then calling in the world on top of the village (a.k.a. destroying the village to save it) is perfectly legal and justified under the various treaties about land war.

Expanding some on the torture theme: Shall we ignore the fact that despite the extremely liberal definition of "uniform" to designate a legal armed combatant (an armband can do the trick), those taken without such are illegal combatants and legally have exactly zero, zilch, nada, nothing in the area of prisoner or legal protection. They are, at best, technically spies and even then, if captured, every breath they take after being identified as an illegal combatant is by all the laws of warfare at the whim of their captor. Even if they surrender. So, the "enhanced techniques" are actually showing far more restraint than is legally required.

Now, I will point out that as a society, to descend to that level of abuse has repercussions that I feel we don't need. However, to stick to politically correct liberal definitions with "equality" all around tends, in my experience, to mean that someone needs to actually get a clue about what real repression and war crimes are about. I'm sure that the vast majority of prisoners under repressive regimes would have loved to have had to deal with "enhanced interrogation techniques" rather than maiming, agony, disability and death. Of course, I might just not be "sensitive" enough to "feel their pain".

Knowles2
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by Knowles2 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:24 am

Me thinking there plan to take the ship is going a little to well.

I got a feeling Shade an Marcus are working for someone else an our little gang is walking right into there trap.
Last edited by Knowles2 on Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Arv
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by Arv » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:03 am

Oh BWAHAHAHAHA! Who's negotiating contracts now, a-hole? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Uh, excuse me, Lord Vader? YOU have failed US for the last time.

Great Jeebus, that was satisfying. Look, lesser soldiers that aren't just nameless target practice! I find it stupefying that ALL commercial science fiction expect that antagonist organizations ALWAYS rule through fear and force, and villains ALWAYS have to show their "bad mofo" creds by abusing and demoralizing their own assets. (Well maybe not Babylon 5, but I dunno for sure.) Wouldn't an evil organization whose soldiers and leaders were fanatically loyal blood brothers be pretty damn scary? Wouldn't a Darth Vader whose philosophy was something like "You rebels scratch one of my men, and I will annihilate one of your worlds" be really nasty intimidating too? Hey wait a minute... that kind of sounds like, I dunno, Sapphira and her crew maybe? ;) Keep it up with the awesome writing David! (And please don't snuff Marcus and Shade in the next panel like a couple of suckers. That would be... unsatisfying.)

And by the way, Mr. Algesan. That "illegal combatant / enhanced interrogation" doubletalk is nothing more than an American end-run around the Geneva conventions, and everybody who isn't in The Last Superpower knows it. You Yanks were getting perfectly good intelligence the old fashioned way with trickery, threats and bribery before the War On Terror, and you handled your many, many enemies without having to designate them as non-persons without any human rights. But after 9/11, it wasn't about defense any more, it was about payback. You needed to hurt somebody for what was done to you, and your good 2-term buddy Bush took that national need and rode it like a crazed bronco right over an innocent oil-bearing nation and your own sterling reputation for enlightened society. It's giving the rest of us Westerners a bad name. And I do apologize if you're not actually from the United States. I just assumed so, as I've never encountered a non-American who recycles the same heartless talking points you do. No offense.

Ugh. Nothing like a dose of nasty politics to sour a good sci-fi. Had to be said though. If (Earthly) world affairs makes your eyes glaze over like my family's, please, please ignore the paragraph above. Um... Tron Legacy in 3 weeks and a climactic CD on Monday, geek life is good. :D

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Mercy Machine
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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by Mercy Machine » Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:14 am

algesan wrote:As for the rest:
I intended to comment on a style of thinking, rather than taking a shot at any particular country, but I was lazy in my choice of examples. I should have been more (or less) specific, referring, instead of "collateral damage", to the targeting of civilians by all combatants in the Second World War, for example. With the examples I chose, your reaction was understandable, and I apologise.

The very idea of lawful combat is an example of Mensk's type of thinking. The victors in previous wars became powerful, and drew up treaties, conventions and "laws of war" that legitimised their style of violence, while excluding and delegitimising other styles. Understandable enough, but a process unlikely to be respected by groups who never got a chance to sit at the treaty table, regard those who did sit at the table as oppressors or invaders, and don't have the resources to fight according to the "rules" with even the smallest chance of success.

I don't dispute the necessity of violence, incidentally. If you look earlier in this thread, you'll see that I was wondering why the Niobids didn't just cut down the opposition without warning. After all, they didn't know that Mensk's goons were going to change sides.

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Re: Official "Discuss the latest page" thread

Post by skythorn » Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:48 am

Knowles2 wrote:Me thinking there to take the ship is going a little to well.

I got a feeling Shade an Marcus are working for someone else an our little gang is walking right into there a trap.
Aye - far far far too well.

I imagine plans within plans within plans ... all resulting in - very messy plans

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